13 Jan 23 Tufail proved to be a soft-spoken, unceremy man who was dominated in conversation by the talkative, outspoken Zaki. Tufail however, held his ground on important issues. Zaki made it clear he felt our approach to introducing "guidelines" was unrealistic because there had been no chance for people to study the report in advance. He also feared I would return with recommendations based on inadequate sample information. He lamented the fact I had not seen country schools, but rather, had been shown the showpieces. He remarked that my trip was typical of American surveys. He said, "They send out experts that make a quick survey and write reports and do not do intensive work to look help at teachers and equipment" (This quote is a liberal quote from memory). Equipment obviously looms large in his mind, although at one time he did say good teachers come first. I spent most of my time describing what I have been trying to do in the field with virtually no equipment, hoping to get across the point that children can learn the scientific approach without getting. Brockhurst said it was a "must" (before I write my report) to see a UNESCO report on Technical Equipment and Curriculum for Science Studies (6 volumes). I failed to mention that I visited the Karachi American School, Mr. R. Marlow, principal and made recommendations on laboratory equipment & projects. They are updating and hope to improve their facilities for biological science.